Today is the second class in our new four class set. We will start class with a casual discussion. Our reading this week is about increased energy costs. Please focus on vocabulary words that you are not familiar with. I will ask you to read in class, so practice at home. Our listening is about Whitney Houston. Please listen to as much as you can. I have included a transcript. We will review our grammar sentences. Please write by hand and upload to our writing page.
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AISHA HARRIS, HOST:
"Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance With Somebody" is about - you guessed it - the late megastar Whitney Houston. In true biopic fashion, the movie recreates many of the singer's well-documented high and low points from her early beginnings to the No. 1 singles, blockbuster movie roles and struggles with drug abuse. Naomi Ackie capably portrays Houston as an artist boxed in by the rigid expectations laid out by her parents and the industry. And while it's clearly meant as a tribute, does this retelling reveal anything new? I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're talking about "Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance With Somebody" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
HARRIS: Joining me today is Ronald Young Jr. He's the host of the film and television review podcast "Leaving The Theater." Welcome back, Ronald.
RONALD YOUNG: I'm saving all my love for you, Aisha.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: Also joining us is podcast producer and film and culture critic Cate Young. Welcome back to you, too, Cate.
CATE YOUNG: I'm so sorry that I'm not quite clever enough to come up with a quick pun, but I'm very happy to be here.
HARRIS: It's all right. I'm sure we'll have maybe some other puns later to share. So "Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance With Somebody" stars Naomi Ackie as Whitney Houston. Tamara Tunie plays Whitney's mother, Cissy Houston, a successful background singer for artists like Aretha Franklin and Whitney's cousin Dionne Warwick. Cissy helps young Whitney develop her own singing voice, and she orchestrates a nightclub performance showcase that impresses the founder and president of Arista Records, Clive Davis. Clive is played by Stanley Tucci here.
Now, from there, the film traces Whitney's rise throughout the '80s and '90s as she breaks records, becomes a music and movie icon. Later, of course, it follows her tragic downfall as drug abuse and other setbacks begin to take a toll on her life. The rest of the cast includes Nafeesa Williams as Robyn Crawford, Whitney's creative director, closest confidante and onetime lover, Ashton Sanders as Bobby Brown, Whitney's volatile husband, and Clark Peters as John Houston, Whitney's domineering father and manager. The movie was directed by Kasi Lemmons and written by Anthony McCarten. And it's also probably worth noting here that Clive Davis as well as Houston's sister-in-law Pat Houston are among the movie's many producers. It's in theaters now.
So, Ronald, let's start with you. How did you feel about "Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance With Somebody"? Such a long title - but how did you feel about it?
R YOUNG: I'm here for it. You know, I enjoyed it. And if you can hear my voice, it's with a major caveat. I'd say caveats, plural. You know, I like Whitney Houston's music. And I think, you know, it's hard not to hear Whitney Houston singing because it's her voice in this movie. And...
HARRIS: For most of it.
R YOUNG: Yeah, exactly.
HARRIS: Yeah.
R YOUNG: And so when you hear it - for anyone who's heard Whitney Houston's voice, you know it does something to you. And sitting in the theater when that was happening, I'm getting goosebumps, and I'm feeling a way. And I had to remind myself, Ronald, you're not doing this because you like the movie or because the movie's that good. You're doing this because of the music and because of how you feel about Whitney Houston. And to be frank, if that's not a problem for you, then you're going to enjoy this movie. You know, like, I think that's what, like, most biopics should do.
This movie was built in a factory made just to make biopics. It has all of the notes that biopics hit. Like, the minute you see a drug, you know that it's going downhill. You know somebody is going to steal some money. You know someone's going to take advantage of someone. All of those things happen in this. But I think the parts that kind of set this apart for me was that they focused in on a bit of a queer love story, which I really enjoyed that. It kind of gave texture to Whitney that I didn't know. It was breaking news to me at the time in the movie when I saw this. And I know - I was talking to friends who mentioned that they had already known this about Whitney Houston, but I did not. So for me, it was fresh and new information at the time. So with all of that in mind, I think, I mean, I liked it. I think it was one of the better biopics I've seen, but it's by no means perfect.
HARRIS: Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you pointed out her voice and sort of what it does because I do think her voice, Whitney's voice, is what really carries the movie. And that is how a lot of us will respond to see that voice because it's - there's a reason this movie was made.
R YOUNG: Yeah.
HARRIS: You know, she was, quote-unquote, "the voice."
C YOUNG: I very much agree. I think I - my topline note is that I walked out of the movie, and I thought, it's giving "Bohemian Rhapsody." Lo and behold, they share a screenwriter. So...
HARRIS: Yes.
C YOUNG: I was like, OK, that tracks. But I completely agree with Ronald in that I don't think this movie is very good, but I had a fantastic time watching it, and it's largely because of the music. I think that Naomi Ackie gives a great performance.
R YOUNG: Yes.
C YOUNG: And it actually did take me a while to realize that it was Whitney singing because I thought it was. But I guess there are points where they mix their voices in, and so I couldn't quite - I wasn't quite sure until after the film and I asked about it. But every single performance scene gave me goosebumps. They were extremely enjoyable to sit through. And if you are coming to see this movie because you are a fan of Whitney Houston music, you are going to have a great time.
R YOUNG: Yes.
C YOUNG: I don't think that the average viewer is particularly going to care about the fact that this movie skips from highlight to highlight to highlight with no connecting tissue in between whatsoever because they're here to hear the music. The movie gives you lots of that. There are some iconic Whitney performances in the film that I didn't even know existed before I saw this movie. And I got home, and I looked them up, and I watched them, and it was incredible to see. And I loved that part of it. I actually did happen to know about Robyn just because, by pure coincidence, on my current podcast, we were working on a Whitney season that's out now. You can listen to it if you'd like to. But I was intimately familiar with her story by that point, and that's part of how I was kind of able to see how much was getting left out and how quickly we were moving through things.
I mean, obviously, Whitney's drug use is a big part of her legacy, unfortunately. It is something that we know about her, and it's something that she got essentially harassed about from a lot of the time that she was still alive. But this movie kind of barely nods at it. Like, she starts early in the film smoking some pot. You kind of see her cut a line somewhere midway through, and then all of a sudden she's a full-blown drug addict, and it's like, where did this come from? The movie doesn't do a good job of, like, building on her life, so much as just skipping through moments that you probably recognize.
HARRIS: Yeah. I think what you're both touching on is kind of my exact reaction, which is that this was made for her fans and that they will be pleased at the end of the day. I saw it at a press screening. I think it was a mixture of press and maybe some other people. Even before the lights, like, dimmed out - and, like, we have not seen anything onscreen yet. There's no credits. All we hear is Whitney's voice. Presumably it's the actual Whitney. We don't see it. But she's doing a warmup, a vocal warmup. It's super just subtle. It's nothing - she's not doing this grand - but you hear it, and someone in the audience started, you know, clapping their hands very, like, giddily. And throughout the movie, there were people who were just, like, so giddy every time a performance moment happened. And then toward the end, when, you know, the obvious turning point happens and everything starts going downhill, as soon as she goes to rehab, from then on, there were multiple people around me who were sniffling and, like, trying to control themselves the whole time.
And that is what these biopics bank on. When you're doing a biopic about a super-famous person, even if you, like Ronald, weren't aware that she was queer - or, like, we consider her queer now, even though she did not acknowledge this throughout her lifetime - even if you go in not knowing that, you still have some memory of her, and you have some understanding of her, and that is what is driving the force of this movie more than anything that the creators on screen are doing. It's just kind of, like, a weird sort of funhouse simulation of, like, what actually happened. I could sense from Kasi Lemmons and the screenwriter a sense that we have to - this is a Black woman. We know how Black women have been treated. And also we know that drug abuse is something that is often - veers too heavily into we're going to turn this into "Requiem For A Dream."
R YOUNG: Yeah.
HARRIS: And it's just going to get, like, ramped up. And I could tell they didn't want to overplay their hand in that case, because then you can really get into the realm of parody, and we don't want to do that when we're talking about someone like Whitney Houston. So I sense this sort of need to respect the story, but then at the end of the day, it felt to me a little bit like an overcorrection...
R YOUNG: Yeah.
HARRIS: ...Very in that, like, it just didn't really delve too deeply into that. And it also didn't really delve too deeply into her artistry either. Do you think that - say you're a casual Whitney fan. Would you come away from this feeling as if you understood her a bit more?
C YOUNG: I don't think that you would, to be completely honest. I think that the biggest flaw to me in this film is that it doesn't really make any effort to examine Whitney's internal life at all. I don't think that I really got a sense of what she wanted or why she made the choices she did. We know, as people who, you know, live in the real world and lived through her life and her legacy, that she was very motivated by her love of the craft. Like, she was an incredible musician. You know, there's a reason she was called the voice. I mean, she was an incredible vocalist who understood her instrument and was able to use it to create the music that we know and love today.
But I think in the film you just get a sense of, like, the idea that she has a great voice and people like listening to her music and she's excited about that. But, like, there's no sense that she has a driving purpose. And I found that really frustrating because I think that that isn't true of Whitney and that she was very clear about the musicianship that she brought to her career. And I don't think that we get a sense of that at all. That bothered me 'cause I think that we deserve to see how involved she was in the making of her music. Craft is important to her.
HARRIS: The movie actually makes it a point - at one point when Clive - actually right after she signed the contract with Arista, he asks her, like, do you write songs? She says, no. And it's interesting to put that in there because it's true she didn't write songs. And I get that. And I think the way we value artists, the way we treat them and we don't consider people who just sing songs - or at least women and especially Black women who are singers - we don't give them as much of the reverence as they deserve. But I think at the end of the day, she still - her voice was an instrument. And not to see her actually, like, wrestling with that and using that instrument in rehearsals, I think was a real - I don't know, it was a missed opportunity, right?
C YOUNG: Especially because as the film goes on, we see because of the drug use that her voice starts to go. Like, she isn't as vocal and strong as she used to be. And it is something that bothers her because her vocals were the one thing that she could count on, you know? She can do the drugs. She can marry Bobby Brown. She can do whatever she wants because at the end of the day, she shows up and she sings. And she can always get it done. And then there comes a point at which she can't get it done anymore. That's shown as a tragedy. But we don't kind of get to see the way that it impacts her sense of self.
R YOUNG: Well, I think what we're talking about here is kind of the biopic problem, because this is really a movie of archetypes, you know? You got the artist. You got the executive. You got the pushy slash, like, thieving family. You got the untrustworthy romance or, perhaps, jealous - all of that. All of those, like, kind of things are going on in this story. And it doesn't feel personal to Whitney as a result, you know? Like, if we talk about, like, her motivation, I didn't walk away feeling like I knew anything that motivated Whitney, or that woke her up in the morning or that even drove her to drugs, to be honest.
I think they tried to hint at it a little bit. But they really didn't - I don't think that it was successful in telling me why. There wasn't a moment in which, like, we're understanding why she's leaning into drugs. Or - the exhaustion makes sense because you go on, like, you know, the 70-day tour. And we're talking about exhaustion. And she's saying, well, I need a pick-me-up. And I think they tried to make a loose connection between her having to get to the gods in order to sing like the gods.
And when you take the Whitney Houston story and just boil it down to a tragic life and a tragic loss, then we kind of lose all of the things about her life that were, like, joyful and great and things that she would have, like, wanted to tell us, you know, just like little minutia. And I feel like I wish more biopics, including this one, would give me more of that about the artist just so I would know them a little more rather than just saying things that we already know, which is that she had a great voice and she had a tragic death, which it doesn't feel fair to paint the whole picture.
And I also don't think it's fair to Robyn Crawford. Her story in this movie is kind of still swallowed up by Whitney's narrative. And Robyn Crawford is still alive and well with a life. And I remember, at the end, wanting a chyron about Robyn because, like, you know, what happened to her? Is everything OK (laughter)? You know what I mean? Did she move on? We know she wrote a book and all that. But, like, I think, if that's the story we're going to tell and we're going to anchor it there, it just kind of feels like we just used it as a jumping-off point for the rest of this tragic story. I don't know. I think we're talking about, really, the biopic problem here, which is that you're not getting deep and personal enough in these stories to make whole characters rather than just archetypes.
HARRIS: Yeah. That personal aspect, I think, is really interesting to think about because after seeing this, I finally sat down and watched one of the documentaries that has come out in the last 10 years about her, "Whitney," which was directed by Kevin Macdonald and came out in 2018. And, you know, I had some issues with the way that framed the story as well. But there are a lot of details that obviously were left out that are not in this film.
And one of the details that I found interesting was that there are moments in the film where you'll hear Whitney's voice singing some song. And then you'll see these moments, just a montage of images of what was happening at the time that we're at in this documentary. So you'll see, like, Reagan. You'll see the drug war. You'll see the crack epidemic. Like, you'll see all those things. And I felt as though, with this movie, this biopic, they didn't situate her in any sort of place in time. She just existed within this vacuum. There was no sense of, like, what was going on in the culture outside of her except for the fact that - you know, the infamous being booed at the Soul Train Awards because a lot of Black people felt that she was this manufactured - and manufactured for a majority-white audience.
I just felt as though that's also missed opportunity to sort of engage her with people outside of just Bobby Brown and the culture. Like, we don't really understand what she meant to that time. That was the era of big singers. Like, I don't need someone showing up as Mariah Carey or whatever. Like, I don't need that. But, like, it would have been helpful to, in some way, sort of put her in this sense of place in time, which I think would help also illuminate sort of what her craft was and why she was so special. And I didn't come away understanding why she was so special at that time. I mean, I knew it. But, like, the movie didn't tell me that.
R YOUNG: I think the other part is that, like, not only what you just said, but there's no accounting for the passage of time in this movie because...
HARRIS: It's very shoddy.
(LAUGHTER)
R YOUNG: Yeah, because I'm like, is she just 16 the entire film, and we just missed it, you know? Like, there's - even when she, you know, moves in with Robyn and their relationship is progressing, and then from the time she signs with Arista and, like, from the time she makes her first single, I remember sitting there thinking, how old is she? What year is it?
HARRIS: It's very confusing.
R YOUNG: And then the only time they actually start emphasizing the year, it's kind of a wink to the audience like, OK, it's 2012. Here's the hotel. Y'all know what's about to happen now.
C YOUNG: Yeah.
HARRIS: Yeah, yeah.
R YOUNG: And which I'm like, I don't - why would you - I know what's going to happen. I think they start off by saying it's 1983, when she's at church. There's not much given to the passage of time in this movie, which makes it tricky to, like you said, say, where are we; what's going on, except for these headline moments we get - she's not Black enough, booed at the Soul Train Awards, meeting Bobby Brown - which makes it - like, I think Cate said this earlier - which makes it pretty much a highlight reel, which - we can just go on YouTube and watch that.
HARRIS: Yeah.
C YOUNG: Yeah. I think one of the things for me that this movie did do well is demonstrate for me why she was facing that criticism of, like, being manufactured, being a white pop star, all of that stuff 'cause to me, I'm young enough that like my first real exposure to Whitney Houston was, like, "My Love Is Your Love." Like, I didn't really have a sense of her career before that until fairly recently. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm like, what do you mean, Whitney Houston is a white artist? That doesn't make sense to me.
(LAUGHTER)
C YOUNG: And I think this film, when they do the scene where she's filming - oh, my goodness. I forget which song it is.
HARRIS: Oh, it's "How Will I Know"...
C YOUNG: "How Will I Know."
HARRIS: ...I think.
C YOUNG: Right.
HARRIS: Yeah. Yeah.
C YOUNG: And she's in this, like, gray sparkly thing, and all her dancers are white, and it's, like, very, like, early MTV, like, white girl Betty, whatever. And I was like, oh.
HARRIS: And then Robyn's like, you look ridiculous (laughter).
C YOUNG: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause I really hadn't gotten it. And I think, like - I've seen that music video a million times. It's on YouTube. I don't think I got the sense of, like, what image they were trying to project of her at that time without the added context of the rest of her life. And now that I had it, I was like - I mean, I wouldn't have treated her as badly as she was treated, but, like, yeah, I get it now.
HARRIS: Yeah. And they also connect to her wanting to link up with Bobby Brown to her wanting to ditch her good girl image and also be, like - he was the Blackest thing you could think of at that time, like...
C YOUNG: (Laughter).
HARRIS: ...Or the Blackest person in R&B who wasn't like a rapper, you know? He was as Black as you get - and try to link that to a part of her identity and why she was attracted to him. But I also don't think it went far enough in sort of exploring that more. So yeah. So to wrap up, as we mentioned already, Clive Davis and one of Whitney's relatives are some of the producers on this. And I thought it was interesting the way Clive Davis and Bobby Brown were portrayed. In many ways, Bobby Brown is sort of absolved of a lot of guilt. And Clive Davis is kind of this benevolent father figure in her life. What did you make of these performances and what they were trying to do?
R YOUNG: I feel like with Clive Davis - I mean, you don't cast Stanley Tucci unless you want me to like that character.
C YOUNG: Yeah.
HARRIS: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
R YOUNG: And so it felt like a friendly casting in that regard. And he was received in a warm light. I think when it comes to Ashton Sanders' portrayal of Bobby Brown, I think you're right. It comes off like an absolution because they didn't tell us anything we didn't already know about Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston's relationship.
HARRIS: Yeah.
R YOUNG: Let's not forget they had a reality show in which, like, some of us watched in the mid to early aughts or late - you know what I mean?
C YOUNG: (Laughter).
HARRIS: I did. Yeah.
R YOUNG: And Bobby Brown is still alive. So you're right. It does let them off the hook. But I guess I'm uncertain of what more they could have done in that regard or what this would have looked like if it weren't people close to Whitney Houston producing the film.
C YOUNG: I agree. I think, to be completely honest, like, neither Stanley or Ashton were the performances that stood out to me. Like, I was primarily focused on Naomi and Nefessa. I think, to me, they're the big draw. And I really appreciated how much of his movie is focused on that relationship and her queerness. I was pleased to see Clive's boyfriend shows up in the end, too.
HARRIS: Yeah.
C YOUNG: And I liked that the movie does not - it does not do what I think "Bohemian Rhapsody" does, which is equate her queerness with her downfall.
R YOUNG: Yes.
C YOUNG: And that I really appreciated because I think for the majority of the film, Robyn is kind of the one voice of reason in a lot of situations. She's the one coming in and saying, like, you're living in squalor. Like, you're Whitney Houston. This is not acceptable. Like, come with me. Let's go to rehab. Let's get cleaned up. To me, I really thought that the core of this film mostly was and should have been, in a more pronounced way, that relationship because I think that is really the core of where we could have mined new material for Whitney and where we could have learned something new about her because they were deeply in love from when she was quite young. And she kept Robyn in her orbit for the rest of her life. So what does that mean for that relationship and the conflict that they were having when Bobby enters the picture? To me, that's where the real meat of the story is. And I was pleased by how much we got, but I wanted more.
HARRIS: You know, at the end of the day, it's a biopic. You'll go in. Be warned. Like, if you don't like biopics, then this might not be for you. But if you have any sort of connection to Whitney, this seems like a nice crowd pleaser. And at the very least, it'll help you - make you want to go back and rewatch all of her performances 'cause that's what I did after this (laughter).
C YOUNG: Yeah. And the other thing I will say is that the one thing this movie does well is that it hammers in how many absolute bangers she had in her career.
HARRIS: Yeah.
R YOUNG: So many.
HARRIS: Yeah.
C YOUNG: I mean, hit after hit.
R YOUNG: Slaps, all of them.
C YOUNG: Absolute bangers. And you get performances for so many of them.
R YOUNG: Yes.
C YOUNG: And that really is the big draw of the movie. Naomi does a great job of kind of mimicking her mannerisms in a way that doesn't feel like a parody. And so you kind of feel like you're getting your own little Whitney Houston concert. It's fun.
R YOUNG: (Laughter).
HARRIS: I don't disagree (laughter). Well, we want to know what you think about "I Wanna Dance With Somebody." Find us at facebook.com/pchh. That brings us to the end of our show. Ronald Young Jr. and Cate Young, thanks for being here. It was great.
C YOUNG: Thank you for having me.
R YOUNG: Thanks for having me.
HARRIS: This episode was produced by Rommel Wood and edited by Mike Katzif. Brendan Crump is our podcast coordinator, and our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all tomorrow, when we'll be talking about our pop culture predictions for 2023.